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 Post subject: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:25 am 
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Let's clear it all.

We have a great number of house which will host some shop on the future Artis map, let's add to that the market place and the merchant building.
It does a lot of merchant NPC, isn't it?

I'm thinking of cutting all of these stuff into three part.
First, the merchant building will host the merchant guild, most stands will be to get further into the evolution of the player through the merchant guild's story and side-quests.
Second, the market place will mostly be the only place where the player will be able to buy some items. It's good, it's all in the same place and it's fairly accessible to most player as it's between the dock and the two entrances of Artis.
Third and last, merchant house, it counts the blacksmith, the light armor shop and so on. Any player will be able to craft their item (ie: X cloths and X leaves/dyes to make this item) there for a lesser price. These shop will sell most items that will let the player craft his own stuff according to his crafting skill.
If that last one didn't yet start the merchant guild quests, and so then, doesn't yet have the craft skill, he will still be able to make it craft from the NPC directly.

So, there will be two (three) different way to get your item. Or you pay it for a high price on the market, or you build it directly by yourself, or you ask for a NPC to build it.

In the end, if a player is lazy, he will pay for a piou slayer 1000E at a shop.
If he is less lazy, he will pay for all of the iron and stuff 900E at a shop, + 100E to make it craft.
If he is less less lazy, he will pay for all of the iron and stuff 900E at a shop, and craft it by himself.
If he is less less less lazy, he will kill some damn <monster_who_drop_these_iron_and_stuff> and craft it by himself.

What do you think? Should I go sleep?

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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:59 am 
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Is Time needed to (he will kill some damn <monster_who_drop_these_iron_and_stuff> and craft it by himself.) Less Than or equal to time needed to farm 1000E?


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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:19 am 
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wushin wrote:
Is Time needed to (he will kill some damn <monster_who_drop_these_iron_and_stuff> and craft it by himself.) Less Than or equal to time needed to farm 1000E?

Lesser or equal would be the best, but that will be something hard to balance.
The best way would be that if the player's level is equal to the item level, the drop sequence should be lesser or equal than the time to farm the 1000E.

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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:25 pm 
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Reid wrote:
In the end, if a player is lazy, he will pay for a piou slayer 1000E at a shop.
If he is less lazy, he will pay for all of the iron and stuff 900E at a shop, + 100E to make it craft.

This two points are equal :) The second player is not "less lazy" and he finally pay equal sum of money :)
In this choice it is better to be first one :)


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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:08 pm 
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Salius wrote:
Reid wrote:
In the end, if a player is lazy, he will pay for a piou slayer 1000E at a shop.
If he is less lazy, he will pay for all of the iron and stuff 900E at a shop, + 100E to make it craft.

This two points are equal :) The second player is not "less lazy" and he finally pay equal sum of money :)
In this choice it is better to be first one :)

That was just to give an example that he can craft it from the NPC as well. :)

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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:17 pm 
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This concept is good, I have some ideas in this way too.
Is server/client can support craft skill?
Quality of the item crafted by player can depend on craft skill level. Player with low craft skill can't craft high quality item, only low.


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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:01 pm 
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Salius wrote:
This concept is good, I have some ideas in this way too.
Is server/client can support craft skill?
Quality of the item crafted by player can depend on craft skill level. Player with low craft skill can't craft high quality item, only low.

On evolserv it was possible, I'm pretty sure that hercules support it.
What do you have as idea?

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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:27 pm 
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Reid wrote:
What do you have as idea?

Oh, nothing special. I mean same ideas about special skills, like crafting or trading for players. Blacksmith skill... And about level of skills: look my post above. Any player can learn skills relative to attack or defense or magic skills and additional skill, not relative to attacking, like crafting and leveling this skill if he/she want. At higher levels of this skill player get much more benefits from this skill than at low level. For example player with low level crafting can craft almost nothing, but player with really high crafting level can make really good items. Of course it should be hard to get very high level of any skill, including crafting.


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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:06 am 
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My thoughts are a complete mess at the moment, so I'll give a simple? outline of how I'd want crafting to work.

1. The players should have two options: either buy finished items from NPC stores or craft the items themselves and trade with each other, no crafting through npcs.
  • Items bought from stores are cheaper and easier to get, but lower quality.
  • Crafted items are higher quality, but harder and more time-consuming to get. (bonus +20% to dmg, for example)
    • This is to give players the incentive to craft items and trade them with other players, instead of buying items from stores. (more player interaction, wohoo...)

2. Crafting skills
  • Anyone will be able to practice any skill without restrictions, that is you can master all the crafting skills and use them with one character. (I'm still not sure about this one, but meh)
  • Training crafting skills consumes materials without making items, this way you prevent flooding the market with thousands of items, so you don't have to worry about the devaluation of items.
    • Keeps crafted items desireable and npc items relevant.
    • Reid decides to try cooking something new, her microwave blows up(no warranty) and she loses all her ingredients. *gained +10 cooking exp* alt38
  • Levelling up crafting skills should take a long time, just like levelling up your character, obviously.
    • Evol class list: Warrior, Assassin, Necromancer, Blacksmith, Cook, Tailor...

3. Items
  • Every item should be consumable, weapons and armour break, clothes wear out, cookies get eaten etc.
    • There should always be a healthy demand for new items to keep players crafting and to avoid inflation, gotta keep that economy running.
  • Weapons/Armour
    • some% chance to break on use. Looks crude, but the items actually get consumed unlike with a durability based system, more fun too.

That's all I've got for now.
I'm fine with whatever ends up getting implemented, I just wanted to share my thoughts. alt20


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 Post subject: Re: [CPT] Market
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:35 pm 
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As an answer on your thoughts I share some of my, which mostly same as yours, but sometime not :)
Mikko wrote:
no crafting through npcs.

Disagree. If you go to blacksmith (npc), is this blacksmith can't craft some weapon or armor for you? This is incorrect IMO. But, may be npc-blacksmith can craft items with not too high quality (limited crafting quality at npc).

Mikko wrote:
  • Items bought from stores are cheaper and easier to get, but lower quality.
  • Crafted items are higher quality, but harder and more time-consuming to get.

Agree. I think same way on this.

Mikko wrote:
Anyone will be able to practice any skill without restrictions, that is you can master all the crafting skills and use them with one character. (I'm still not sure about this one, but meh)

Agree, but with some corrections. If you learn too many different skills, you can't focus on most important skill. What I mean: if you "invest" some "points" to, for example, crafting skill, then you have not enough "points" to learn other (more important) skill. Much more harder to learn multiple skills than one or two most important skills. This is my type of skills balance. May be you can to be a master warrior and master blacksmith same time, but you need really very very many time leveling to up all skills to master level. I can speak long about this system, but I don't want to make too long post here on forum :)

As I wrote before, players with crafting skill at levels beginner to medium can't make too high quality items. Mostly low quality. Some randomness may be added to decrease/increase quality of crafted item. Only players with really high crafting level can make high quality items, but it should be hard to leveling your skill to high level.

Mikko wrote:
Training crafting skills consumes materials without making items, this way you prevent flooding the market with thousands of items, so you don't have to worry about the devaluation of items.

I don't think about it, but I can agree. This is interesting idea.

Mikko wrote:
Reid decides to try cooking something new, her microwave blows up(no warranty) and she loses all her ingredients. *gained +10 cooking exp* alt38

Ha ha ha :D

Mikko wrote:
Levelling up crafting skills should take a long time, just like levelling up your character, obviously.

Of course.

Mikko wrote:
Evol class list: Warrior, Assassin, Necromancer, Blacksmith, Cook, Tailor...

Hey, where is the WIZARD?! alt12 I'm a wizard, not necromancer alt37 Always, in games like this, wizards are most discriminated by developers alt30
BTW, if want to know something about magic, ask me, I know everything about magic :) I want to open my own school of magic :)

Mikko wrote:
Weapons/Armour some% chance to break on use.

Agree, you read my thoughts :) But I want to make possible to repair broken items. Of course you need some materials and money to repair it. It's look a bit unfair if I crated really good (high quality) sword, then this sword broken and I loose this sword. For me better to go and repair this sword even if it cost big price to repair. The quality of the sword is so great, this high price is not too high to repair it :)


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